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Talk:California
"It occasionally skirmished with Baja, but California's those military might was daunting for any of its potential enemies." - The Disunited States. I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Could you please reword this? Thanks. ML4E 22:03, 3 October 2007 (UTC) Turtledove seems to have a bit of a love affair with California: He sets almost all his contemporary stories there; he set significant portions of the Colonization trilogy there by having Yeager settle there even though neither he nor Barbara the Bigamist had roots; he made it a superpower in DSA; he always has it bounce back quickly after nuclear destruction (as we've noted on the Ideas Found in Multiple Timelines page); and when he does show someone get the best of it (HFR, CCH, CN, GR) he sets it up in such a way that there's no doubt for whom we're supposed to be rooting. Think this "Yay California!" stuff justifies another IFiMT item? We could call it "I Wish They All Could Be California Girls." Turtle Fan 05:29, February 9, 2010 (UTC) Actually, at the same time he pisses all over most California politicians he uses: Adolph Sutro, Hiram Johnson, Herbert Hoover if you want to count him, Richard Nixon, Earl Warren. :I think as we discussed elsewhere, he's a born-and-bred Californian. As you pointed out, he's mean to Cali as often as he's nice, so IFiMT is probably extreme. TR 05:43, February 9, 2010 (UTC) ::Born and bred, yes. I don't recall pointing out he's mean as often as he's nice, just that he doesn't care for its politicians, other than perhaps Helen Douglas. :::Ah, and it's right above, too. I should have read that more closely. ::But yeah, it would be a bit of a stretch to call that an IFiMT. Hard to quantify, for one thing. "On many occasions, Turtledove has used California as a setting." Turtle Fan 17:06, February 9, 2010 (UTC) :::That is very broad. He's described France as second- or third- rate on at least two occasions, though....TR 17:11, February 9, 2010 (UTC) ::::Hmm--We could. ::::He also does the old "French are cowardly" thing in all his WWII stories except TWTPE. Of course, unless your POD has them fighting harder and holding out longer, it's hard to avoid that interpretation of events. Turtle Fan 17:37, February 9, 2010 (UTC) :::The problem is that this view is common among in the Anglosphere, near as I can tell. So it's hardly remarkable to HT, nor that surprising that the ideas would be found in multiple works. TR 17:41, February 9, 2010 (UTC) ::::Haha! Cowardly French. The Anglosphere pisses on you. ::::Seriously, though, it must be embarrassing for them. At a time when almost all the world was producing heroes whose names would live on in immortality, they . . . did what they did. Well they came out with de Gaulle; we think he's a dick but it's at least possible to put a positive spin on his record. Turtle Fan 20:41, February 9, 2010 (UTC) Former Countries Was there a reason we removed it from that category? 75.68 has put it back in there, invoking the Bear Republic--which never had a civil government, never had recognition from a single world government, and never had more than tenuous military control over a small fraction of the territory it claimed. And even that control lasted all of 25 days. I can't help thinking it doesn't pass the laugh test. Turtle Fan (talk) 17:20, November 22, 2015 (UTC) :It was probably removed for the reasons you just listed. TR (talk) 17:24, November 22, 2015 (UTC) ::Shall we revert the edit, then? Turtle Fan (talk) 17:28, November 22, 2015 (UTC) :::It's still listed in Former Countries (OTL). Maybe there was a redundancy? TR (talk) 18:05, November 22, 2015 (UTC) :::Ok, I seem to have misread. Are you suggesting we should remove from Former Countries? ::::Yeah, I wanted to confirm that we were in agreement first. Turtle Fan (talk) 20:32, November 22, 2015 (UTC) :::As an aside, maybe we should have a category for short lived unrecognized states? Could we support that? TR (talk) 18:47, November 22, 2015 (UTC) ::::I don't doubt we'd be able to shake a bunch loose. I'm more concerned that it would be too messy a category. The very nature of the beast makes it quite hard to come up with standard criteria. Turtle Fan (talk) 20:32, November 22, 2015 (UTC) I did a blitz of "Former Countries" on Nov. 21 removing anything that seemed out-there or "Former City-States" that were not one in any Turtledove story. I figured if there was an argument to be made to restore something, it could be done in the Talk pages. This one seems pretty weak based on the comments already made so should be remove again. ML4E (talk) 22:04, November 23, 2015 (UTC) :It's done. I took out "Notable Californians" while I was at it. Turtle Fan (talk) 01:32, November 24, 2015 (UTC) ::Good luck with the second part! Anon. and Jonathan have been growing the lists! ML4E (talk) 18:27, November 24, 2015 (UTC) :::Have they? Jonathan's been shitting up the Recent Changes so much with his stupid photos and whatnot that I don't really know what's going on here anymore. I'll go state by state, though. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:06, November 24, 2015 (UTC) TCotTSD It was Golden Province. TR (talk) 22:53, September 1, 2016 (UTC) :Are you sure? Googling it, I find Golden Province Freeway, but as there is Golden State Freeway in OTL, I don't know if that rules out that the name California exists in the Spell Dump universe. Oregon is mentioned by name in the book, and I think Massachusetts is too.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 23:04, September 1, 2016 (UTC) ::And Arizona is the Arid Zone, and Colorado is Ruddy, and New Mexico is New Aztecia, and Utah is Snowland. I think we are safe assuming its Golden Province. TR (talk) 04:25, September 2, 2016 (UTC) :::In WBtP, it was mentioned twice: once as Golden Province, once as Baja Province. Turtle Fan (talk) 08:01, September 2, 2016 (UTC) Reagan as Gov. of Calf. Does the story say he was the former Governor or are you assuming this from OTL? ML4E (talk) 19:01, November 17, 2016 (UTC) :The story name checks Reagan as a former Gov.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 21:32, November 17, 2016 (UTC) ::To be precise, "Reagan already had the GOP nomination pretty much in his back pocket. Bill figured the ex-governor from one state south would have breezed here any which way. Jefferson’s Republicans averaged just to the right of Attila the Hun."JonathanMarkoff (talk) 20:27, November 19, 2016 (UTC) The Gold Rush and "The Two Georges"--Nuevaespanolan War The war with New Spain was in the 1860s, as stated in the book. Gold was discovered in the 1840s in the OTL. We don't know the causes of the war. Perhaps it was the discovery of gold and/or other metals and natural resources? There wasn't a Texan Republic annexation issue to deal with. Could have the gold been discovered earlier, causing North Americans and New Spanish to flock to Upper California creating tension with NA and NS miners? (SashaBonaparte148 (talk) 04:55, April 2, 2018 (UTC)) :It's possible, but, given how much Spain remained involved in Nueva Espana, and the ongoing conflict between the Spain and Britain, I personally find it unlikely that Spain would have permitted an influx of British subjects looking for gold. Stranger things have happened, of course. TR (talk) 16:56, April 2, 2018 (UTC)